Category: !CL Candidates
Hey all,
I'm really excited to be one of the newest CL's. My decision to apply was not one made lightly. I spent a lot of time thinking about whether or not I would truly be a good fit for the position, and finally decided I would be. I don't claim to know everything yet about what to expect, but learning is half the fun, and I look forward to every minute of it.
As many of you already know, I've been active on the boards for quite a few years, and even more in public over the past few weeks. turning my public quicknotes back on further confirmed my decision to apply for the position, and no matter what happens, I know I won't regret it. I have wanted to have the chance to be helpful in the community for quite a long time, so I'm definitely glad to be getting that chance.
I definitely feel that both my text and audio profiles represent who I am very well, so I won't repeat anything that has been said there. if you have any questions for me, or if you just want to chat, feel free to send me a quicknote, voicemail, or a private message, and I'll be happy to chat with you. I can't promise perfection, but I promise to make my contributions to the site as worthwhile as possible.
I know a lot of you have been wondering why I didn't post my application on the boards, as most other candidates did. My personal belief is that my interactions with the community in general, be it the boards, profile reviews, and public and private quicknotes should speak for themselves. I wanted to make my intentions known not by telling you about them in a single post, but simply through being myself.
Many of you have voted, and/or congratulated me. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your support. for those of you who don't yet know me, I look forward to connecting with you in the near future. don't be afraid. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm just as nervous. *smiles*.
to all the staff members, I look forward to getting to know you better, and working with you. I'm sure I will fit in well, and hopefully I don't drive you all crazy with my questions. *laughs*.
yay! I'm so excited for you, jess. I'm excited for all of us, because I truly believe that the staff chose an awesome new CL. I don't know you that well; I've really only had the chance to interact with you through board posts, but I've read many of your posts and from them, I have come to the conclusion that you are fair, level-headed, intelligent and oppinionated. That's what prompted me to vote for you for CL.
Once again, congratulations, and I hope we, as a community won't wear you out or frustrate you too much, or compell you to go into hiding and return to the zone only on rare occasions. *grins. I've seen you on here more than a handful of times, and it's good to know that someone who actually frequents this site is chosen to be it's community leader.
Best of luck!! :)
Congrets Jess. i believe you will make a good CL. well, all of the CLS are great really. You will be a great add on for them. Congrets, all the best.
congratulations:)
sure you will be great
Congratulations to you. You always have interesting and honest things to say; you will definitely be an asset to the zone. I will do some reading to find out more about you.
yea! jess! congrets
Congratulations Jess, I'm sure you'll do a good job. I've not known you long, and so wasn't sure initially if you'd make a good cl or not, however we've spoken a good bit recently and I've come to feel that you will be a good adition to the staff, so best of luck.
Congratulations, Jess! I've no doubt you'll do well. I'm really glad I've gotten to know you more in recent weeks.
Congradulations, Jess. I'm glad you got the position. You seem as though you have a lot to bring to the table, and having you as a community leader will only benefit the site. Some aspects of it you will enjoy, and other parts will suck. I'm not telling you what you all ready know though. Lol. Best of luck.
:)
Congratulations. I haven't always agreed with things you've said in board posts, but I respect your ability to express yourself articulately and to be up front with your opinions on any and every subject. I hope your enthusiasm for being a CL doesn't retreat over time. You seem like a very strong minded person, and I'm sure you'll give the job everything you have.
Jess, congrats to you and the other 2 new CL's. Woohoo!!!
Hey Jess. congratulations on this well-deserved honour! I know you will be a great fit for the position.
Cool girl!
congrats!
Sorry I'm so late on this, but I just want to congratulate you as well.
I noticed this original post was made about 10 months ago. I also noticed while you were one of the CL candidates to campaign hard to get votes, we rarely have seen you since you became a CL. Maybe you're doing your job behind the scenes, but it sure would be nice if we mere peasants could see our CL's visible presence on the site more often.
OK, maybe this is mean spirited of me, but I just checked her profile. She hasn't even been logged in since last January. What kind of CL could she be? Seems to me if you campaign for votes you need to be prepared for the job.
Lol I forgot this topic was made being that it was so long ago. She must be busy with a lot as the admins are probably as well. Wonder how long it'll be until more positions open up and filled.
whenever it is, I hope whoever gets the job actually does what they claim they will.
Just bear in mind that people probably didn't choose to apply for CL knowing they wouldn't be able to fulfill the requirements. I suppose it's possible she just flat doesn't give a damn about the Zone anymore and should be suspended, but by the same token...what exactly are multiple CLs for? Anthony, correct me if I'm wrong here, but you're not exactly swimming in administrative duties that should be OceanDream's responsibility.
I'm definitely not a fan of letting someone have a position of power/authority, and in so doing keep it from someone else who'll do more with it than the absentee, but I'm also not in favour of making quick judgment calls. I don't know OceanDream well, but from the little I do know, I suspect something has to have changed vastly in her life that she'd stop being on the Zone, especially as suddenly as that.
Ocean aside, (I really hope she's all right) the only CL I ever see around here is Anthony. On that note, Anthony, thank you for being around as often as you are. It's appreciated.
Okay, Gregg, I do see your point, but if something changed, wouldn't it have been a bit courteous to at least let the staff know? I don't think 7 months is exactly quick. she promised quite a lot, so to just suddenly walk away without a word doesn't say much for her, IMO.
My point exactly. This is September. She hasn't logged on since January. That's nine months. The least she could have done is let an admin or other CL know she can't fulfill her obligations and resign so someone else can apply for the position. I know that unexpected things can come up, and I've personally talked to a couple past CL's who said the job was more tiring than they expected, but they had the courtesy to resign instead of just disappearing.
I do hope she is alright, though, but if she is not deathly ill, then she should come on here long enough to resign.
Oh, I agree that if she can, she should have.But if she can't, then she should be cut that much slack, anyway. It's almost a pity she can't be suspended pending evidence, and then if she comes back (and her reason for being totally dormant was viable, and isn't going to impede her further), re-evaluate her as CL material.
I know how it feels when you've got a staff member, however much their job may or may not mean to the running of a site or enterprise on a day-to-day basis, who is on the staff list but doesn't show. I don't much care for it at face value.
I pulled up her twitter timeline, and from what I can tell, she's either going to college, or just about to start going to college, after getting out of a training center, so I'm sure she's quite busy. I'll also be the first to admit that if I was able to go out and be around that many people, I'd be outa here in a flash, especially when I was her age.
as has been said, though, how many seconds would it take for her to quickly log on here, or contact an admin, to resign, and give up the position to someone who has the time to provide what should be given?
I knew she was at one of those centers, and it seems perhaps she could have written first and let the staff know. In a couple monts I hope to know again what freedom is after long years of isolation, so I can understand the response. But perhaps she doesn't realize yet the effects of this, or thinks she'll be coming back later on. I do seem to remember she did campaign hard for the position. Then shortly thereafter went to the center. I don't know how much time that takes to apply and get admitted to those types of places, but I find it hard to believe that would have been sudden like that. Still all is speculation at this point.
I think the reason this disappoints me so much is that I really believed Jess would be one to stay with the position, and do something with it. I'm sad to see I was wrong. I certainly understand things like going to a training center and college being a priority over a volunteer position on here. That's as it should be. But given that, I think the courteous thing would be to resign the position.
If this were a job paid or not paid and you didn't show up to do that job you'd be let go.
Even if she died, they'd have to let her go.
I hope she's well, happy, and enjoying life, but someone should move her on.
Maybe you should suggest that Anthony? Popular demand?
volunteer or not is not the main concern here. I think, regardless of posission, either pay or not pay, you should really, being a "responsible'" adult and either resign the post or be responsible for it. I think, there should also be a rule for cls that if they don't log in for say 60 days, the posission should be automaticly suspended. Not only that, the free life premium membership advantage should also be suspended. Isn't it one of the question on the cl application as to how many hours one can be on zone doing CL duties? There are excuse for not able to log in for a week or two, okay, a month maybe, but there's no excuse, not at all for not able to log in for almost 8 months and still holding the posission.
Regardless of what a cl does or not, that is just unfair for the rest of the team. Take Anthony for example, who logging in almost all the time.
If there are 10 or 20 cls who log in every 9 months or ones a year, why not just having 3 who may able to log in at least ones a week?
Honestly, is that okay for someone, either on spay or volunteer posission for not at work for more than 8 months? the answer is definite no. Can you do that even on a volunteer posission in normal circumstances? answer is no.
so how do all, or any of you know that jess hasn't spoken to an admin, to explain why she hasn't been around. most of you are going on like she's committed a major wrong-doing because she hasn't logged in here for a while. I understand the point about fulfilling responsibilities, but get a grip, this is the zone. the girl has a life, obviously a busy one. some of you should try that, instead of coming on here every day, commenting on every board post you see, even if you have no interest in the topic at hand, and generally trying to act like you know that little bit more or better than everybody else. most of you don't even seem to know your way out of your homes. this post is not directed at everybody who wrote here, just a good percentage, so if it annoys you, it was meant to.
I agree with Joanne.
No matter how busy my life gets. No matter what I've told the staff as to why I am not holding down my duties, I am taking up space and things I'm not using.
I have a premium I am not earning.
A responsible person admits they can't deal, and gives it up, so someone else can.
I don't know about you poster above me, but I can find my way out of my house, conduct a busy life, and still log on to the Zone to post even when I'm not home.
I can do it on a bus if I want to. Smile.
Because the Zone, and it's people and topics is one of my interest, I create time for it.
It is just like any other hobby, or pastime.
So if I were CL, I'd create time to be CL, or say I'm not interested anymore.
That to me says something about my willingness to give to the community I lobbied.
Now, if she has said she doesn't want the place, and the admin's have not taken steps to remove her, that is not her fault, but we the community, have no idea, so can only judge with what we have.
my thoughts exactly, Wayne.
I'm resigning a couple offices with my local Coast Guard flotilla for just that reason. Still, I will be active there, and participate where I can, but since we're moving and I have things to attend on the family front plus possibly a significant amount of changes, this must happen. I only say this to illustrate it is possible. And yes, people usually do get somewhat upset when a volunteer leaves because people who volunteer are usually hard workers but still. Better to have resigned your post than suffer the consequences, in my case, or at minimum to leave the community hanging.
She is still young, barely out of her teenage years if I remember right: not an excuse but maybe a reason if she is quite absorbed in her own life and has forgotten about this place.
She's in her late twenties actually, leo. So she hasn't much of an excuse.
Now, I'd like to address an interesting pattern: Notice how a bunch of people lobby to be CL's only to stop coming on here at all? Only to have something more important in life come up all of a sudden... Jess isn't our only CL who's been MIA. There's Grecia, There's certainly Liz...
Hey, what do you know? Maybe becoming CL for some is like a good luck charm. A stepping stone, if you will. They stay long enough to accomplish their status, then they fly away on the wings of life to more promising places.
Not ok, but isn't it somewhat interesting in a lighthearted, funny way? lol
Good point about the other CL's as well, Bernadetta. As it stands, we have only one consistently active CL, or at least one visible one.
just to clear things up, Jess is 22, not in her late 20's.
I might digress, but the sight itself needs some work or update. There have been some issues with the TOS and so forth, and none of that's on the CL's. I don't know anthony very well, but I see him here often, and I believe he's doing a fair job. That's really taking responsability. THANK YOU! As has been pointed out, though, I think it's rather unfair for CL's to promise contribution and not live up to it. Ok, some might be invisible, so how would we know they're actually on fulfilling their duties? I believe it comes down to having rules on this sight that needs improvement. Now before I get called on for saying that, I enjoy comming hear to read the bords and interract with some people, so I'm not in complete dislike of the sight, I just feel it needs improvement. And that is our responsability as a comunity and more CL's like Anthony.
To the person who asked how we know she hasn't been in contact with the admins, then if she has, it is not very responsible of them to let her continue to be listed as a CL when she never comes here anymore. They, the admins, should be taking more responsibility as well.
And good point about her not being the only CL missing in action for long periods of time.
This is making -me want to apply. I don't have a lot of time on my hands but I'd sure as hell log in more than once every six months.
Hmm, I could use a little good luck. Maybe I should apply. lol
Actually, I doubt I have the technical knowhow but I've been a community moderator before. I seem to be here quite often. lol
hahaha, wonder how the zone stands on a decent resume? maybe something maybe nothing, or maybe nagative responds.
Indeed, admins need to be responsible in this as well. But, if admins themselves can't make a good example of logging on the site, why the cls should care as much?
Also, seems like there's no consiquences for cls not to log in, no regulation on it, so, a cl can pretty much choose to log in ones a year, or ones a week, does not make any different as far as admins and responsibilities are concern.
Either Jess is 29 or 21, does not give an excuse in this matter. If she's old and mature enough to apply as a cl, and know the responsibilities of a cl, she should also be old enough to be a responsible adult/cl. Again, like in a general workplace. YOu just got promoted at your workplace, then, 3rd week after your promotion or so, you disappear for 8 months or longer. one day you appear out of no where, and say to your boss, hey, i'm 19, i have a life out of work, i'm still very young, i don't know how to be a responsible worker/volunteer unlike that person who's 35 can you?
She personally argued on the boards that she was a responsible person. She did that to prove she was worthy to become a wife at 18.
Not that I'm bashing anyone, but as I recall, that didn't pan out for her either. Marriage, I mean.
that's correct, Bernadetta.
and, just to clarify, while I get what leo was saying about someone coming out of their teens being more self absorbed, if you will, I certainly don't think that's justification for Jessica's actions.
if you're old enough to understand what it means to be responsible, carry responsibility out in some areas of your life, then go so far as to commit to a job, or position like this, you should damn well do your best to fulfill what you chose to commit to. or, if you can't, admit that to the powers that be, so someone else who has the time and will put in the required effort it needs, can do so. better yet, don't commit to something like this, if it's highly likely that you might suddenly be pulled away from it.
Completely agreed. I would not have expected to get away with something like this even at age sixteen. Most teenagers understand the concept of responsibility to at least some degree; I doubt many teenagers would tell you "Yes, if I don't show up for my job for six months I should still have a position there waiting for me". So Jess, who is in her early twenties, should have even less excuse. This is all assuming, however, that her absence is based upon a lack of responsibility and not upon something far more serious. Is anyone in contact with her? Maybe people who know her could tell us if she's at least doing okay.
I think Anthony posted earlier on in this topic that she has been at a training center, which, honestly, is even more of a reason why she shouldn't have agreed to be a CL.
as one who has attended a training center myself, I can speak to the fact that a person can't suddenly get pulled away from life's other happenings.
you fill out paperwork, so you know you'll attend. sometimes, it's just a bit of a waiting game as to when they'll have an open slot for you.
First off, Dale, you are great! lol.
Now to the subject at hands… It is one thing to question Jess’s presence or in this case, the lack there of as a CL. It is also your prerogative and I suppose your rights even to criticize her so as to subtly paint yourself in a better light or convincing others you’d be a better fit for the position because you would be more responsible and so forth. Hindsight is 20/20 and a wonderful thing, smiles. Personally though, I am in accordance with Dale’s point of views regarding this matter for the most part.
However, dragging something as personal as her failed marriage into the discussion to me, serves but one purpose… to be malicious!!! I find this act distasteful, small, and more importantly, it’s utterly and completely none of your darn business!
None of you have made a serious mistakes in your entire lives have you? You’ve never had things gone wrong despite thinking it through and carefully planning for it? In that case, you’ve been pretty darn lucky, and may your luck continues and that you won’t feel the sting of having said serious mistake throw back in your face should you made a grave one.
I’ve said what I wanted to say, so now I shall climb aboard the unpopular Zones express, *huge smiles*
I probably should not have said what I said about being young, my daughter is 18 and commits to things and does them all the time. Meglet's right about them being 16 and knowing better. I worked for the Immigration department during the summers at 16 so, I guess I had no right to say irresponsibility could be accounted for by youth. I was wrong, I stand corrected.
I didn't post her marriage as a point of reference as to failed or not failed. I spoke to show she's responsible, because she argues that fact when she was talking about becoming a wife at 18.
She has stated many times she's an adult person, and thinks as one, so we couldn't use her age as a factor in this discussion.
wow get to grips with realities people. life throws up many obsticals, some we have to address instantly. not everyone is boring and ruteened actions sometimes have to be spontaneous. I can't belive I just lost about 5 mins of my life reading this shit. people who are like Mini said are dragging other aspects of her life into this are just low and obviously lacking self asteme. same people different shit how ever. get over it it's an online area!
While I see what Dale and others are saying here, I think it's a bit misinformed to think that all the people on here are posting because we don't have jobs or lives or other occupations. More of the people I've met on the zone either work, volunteer, or attend school than not, and many of us find time to come on here amidst getting our degrees or working or raising our children or whatever it is we fill our time with. This isn't a case of a bunch of people with nothing better to do bitching someone out to make ourselves look good. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm secure enough in my worth as a person that I don't need to bash Ocean Dream or any other zone user just to make myself look responsible. I already know I am, I don't need the zone to validate that.
I have to mostly agree with Kim on this one. The expression "flogging a dead horse" comes to mind.
She's old enough and intelligent enough to know what responsibility is. Either she did talk to admin and they haven't relieved her of duty, or she hasn't and she ought to have done. And that's where it ends.
As far as her marriage goes...well, the marriage not working out doesn't mean that it was her fault. I think that whole angle is invalid, both because marriage and maturity don't go hand in hand (even though they sort of ought to) and because it's frankly none of our business what she does or doesn't do outside the zone.
Is Jess's absence getting in someone else's way, day-to-day? Is her occupying a CL slot actually inconveniencing anyone? There's been no evidence to support this as yet. Same goes for the other CLS who are, or have been, inactive (or mostly inactive) while holding the position. That being said, it strikes me as more of an administrative problem than anything. I think that since it's not hurting anyone, let them handle it. We are pretty much all in agreement that she should've told someone she couldn't uphold the position anymore, but none of us knows for sure whether or not she did this. It was automatically assumed that she didn't, and I find that telling.
Why a topic of this nature has accrued fifty-something posts, many of them just rehashing the same old ground over and over, is beyond me.
And to add, just like Facebook, twitter, your telephone, and these soaps you watch, this is an interesting discussion. That is why you took a whole 5 minutes out of your busy, productive day to read this shit. Smile.
Like the rest of us, you are interested.
Speaking for myself, it's sort of like a train wreck actually. I'm not interested so much as I'm morbidly curious what sort of silliness turned a short topic into a longer one. I found out, and commented on it. Maybe the next time I stick my head in here, I'll have been flamed from four directions and the topic length will have doubled again. I really couldn't care less, as I've said what I mean to. Let the admins deal with it if it's not hurting anyone; if they don't, then it's incompetence on their part.
post 53 was right on. thank you, and very well said, Meglet.
Gregg, I agree with you on everything you've said but for one thing: Jess holds a position that others may want to occupy. Other people could probably do her job and devote more time to the position. I think that's why people care so much.
Gregg. You do bring up a valid point here. No, she's not getting in anyone's way, and all these cl's not doing what they agreed to do is really no big deal in the grand skeem of things. If new anagrams don't get put up, it's not hurting anyone. If someone comes in and starts crashing screenreaders and no one is around to bann them, it's not really all that big of a deal. If no one is here to approve new accounts or even make an attempt to find duplicate accounts, no one is going to die. It might actually be doing some people a favor. I do wonder why people fight so hard for the position if it doesn't really mean anything. It might actually be fun to just make everyone a cl, so everyone could bann one another over the slightest disagreement. If that were the case, then one CL wouldn't have to deal with all the conflicts, so it could actually kind of work.
And this, Anthony, is why I said what I did about there not being any evidence as yet relating to the harm she may or may not be doing. If the community needs a certain number of "CLs to be fairly active a good amount of the time, without which the overworked CLs will get buried in the stuff that their peers should be doing, then it's definitely a problem. This also ties neatly into what you said, Meglet, because as far as I know, the number of CLs is not fixed, and so even if Jess is filling a slot, she may as well not be. It ought to be easy for someone or other to re-open CL applications or to hand-pick someone to do the job Jess, and to a slightly lesser extent Grecia, should be doing. If there was a hard limit on the number of CLs permitted, then I'd see what you're saying; it would be upsetting to know that you might better fill a slot in a limited list, a slot which currently yields no real benefit to anyone.
I'll circle back to the admin though. Since the only people who can make or remove community leaders are admin, as far as I'm aware, then the issue is actually more their responsibility than anyone else's. I believe that administrative duties demand that you take initiative; if your list of CLs is limited, and at least one of them isn't pulling their weight, then actively suspend them and re-open the floor to those more currently interested in making a difference. I might well be among those to apply, were this the case, but that's not why I'm saying any of this. Simply put, it was (and is) an inactive CL's responsibility to speak up about their situation, but it's also the admin's responsibility to step in and do something about it instead of letting the problem fester. My bigger beef here is with admin, not Jess.
Its interesting to me that Jess is really the only CL being actively called out for this, When there are others on the team. One of which is really able to make the commitment. another of which logs on when they can, even though they have a professional life and obligations. Others sign in once or twice a year at best. the fact of the matter is, this isn’t a quick kind of play the blame game problem. Its multi faceted. Here are things as I see them.
1. the admins don’t have the time to do much for the sight themselves, so they appointed CL’s to help out with the job. But, because they don’t really have the time or in some cases inclination to deal with the sight, they may or may not choose to hold a CL to the commitment as it were, or deal with the more complex issues cropping up here as a result. thus, little insentive to do a good job, and little public support from some of the administration has lead some CL’s in the past to throw in the towel. this isn’t guess work, many have said as much, and will again, if asked.
2. CL’s take a lot of crap from a generally unsupportive user population. Everyone wants to be part of the peanut gallery, get their spin on the story in, and maybe cause a little drama in the process to make things more interesting, thus creating more work for the CL’s and admins, ultimately causing CL burnout. while creating situations that “give the CL’s a little hell” people make a lot of ongoing work for them and cause problems that prevent actual work for the sight from getting done.
Maybe one way to fix some of these problems is by doing something like creating a ban log. so the facts where appropriate are disclosed to the user population, so excess drama can be avoided.
3. People have lives. this point is fairly self explanatory. things happened in Jess’s life, she went to training, etc. as I haven’t spoken to her recently, i’m not going to lay all that out here, except to say that she seems ok, from the few interactions we’ve had. she is how ever busy.
4. Jess set the bar for herself very high, and while she was around, she stuck to every point she set. she was publicly around, both on the public sight and on team talk. she moderated the boards, and spent hours at times cleaning out the buildup of duplicate or fake accounts rather than spending time with her friends, or doing the activities she loved, because she cared about this place. she helped get anagrams up, helped users with their problems, and stood beside Anthony and Scott to take a lot of flack from the community and sort out some tight situations. Conveniently in her absence though, everyone’s forgotten this. the fact of the matter is that while living with Jess, I saw this position put a great deal of strain on her, and I know it has for others.
5. She didn’t violate any ethics guidelines, give her friends advantages, move herself in to rooms on team talk where she wasn’t allowed, leak who posted what anonymous, remove old board topics just because she was asked, or anything of the kind. She was honorable and played by not only the rules, but moral common sense principals. she did this knowing full well that the admins probably wouldn’t have the time to punish her for any transgression she may make. Which, is more than many CL’s of the past can say. To be Clear, I’m not implying that all past and present staff have violated ethical principles, either.
6. the downside to jess setting her personal bar so high, was her absence being noticed so quickly, and the outpour of dismay being so strongly expressed over the past several months. Its clear she had an impact here, or no one would be writing about her in the first place. In a somewhat ironic sense, its a twisted compliment.
7. As far as I can tell, the only promise she broke to the community as a hole was not resigning. this being the case, even though Anthony has said that she never publicly resigned on the staff list, I do not know if she attempted to contact the admins off list. As she has a relatively spotless record, this problem has created quite a lot of visible commentary, annoyance, confusion and misunderstandings. People don’t often comment on how clean a white table cloth is, but the moment a few drops of wine are spilled, man does it show. Again, if she wasn’t valued as much, I doubt the controversy would be half what it is today.
8. considering all the hell CL’s are put threw, anyone trying to seriously politicize the position doesn’t seem to understand exactly what they’re getting in to. Fact is, its work.
9. while in the grand scheme of things, Anthony being the only regularly active CL isn’t a huge issue on the surface, if anthony were to drop off as well, no new accounts would be created, no new anagrams would be uploaded, no one would be band for violating the TOS, and no one would be around to fix the boards should they need content removed.
if people would like to see just how annoying the sight could be with out moderation, we probably could ask Anthony to take a vacation. Would we even have a zone left, or would everyone run everyone else off? I like the fact our CL’s and users have lives outside the zone, because in the end, it makes the zone more interesting for everyone, but I do agree with the general principle of making an effort to stick to the agreement you set with the admins and community by taking on the job. Sure, its an online voluntary position, but I’ve never heard of any other online positions being this lax.
10. Attacking Jess using situations and events that have nothing at all to do with the Position is low. take all that drama and take it somewhere else, as it is not only a cheep shot, but unrelated to the topic at hand. this is the kind of attitude that is driving people away from the zone.
11. As the admins haven’t done anything about this yet, we can’t just say Oh, bad little CL’s. A CL can’t just resign, or be automatically removed. An Admin needs to do this.
Until an admin has the time and thinks its important enough to take the time to do, its not getting done.
12. the zone relies on all of its users to make changes, set standards,and influence the way day to day activities are handled, and the rules in place. their is a time for trolling, and a time for responsibility. to keep things on track, lets put aside the troll masks, and stick to the facts. this discussion has gotten out of hand partly because people have taken the opportunity to rag on someone who isn’t around to defend themselves, out of spite. Lets be better people than this, folks.
I’m not sure what more really can be said.
Stormwing, thank you for this. You put a lot of thought into it, and I like the way you explained things. Your point about the first spot of wine showing up large on a white tablecloth is especially true, and folds into what I was saying about whether or not Jess did or didn't talk to the admins in order to resign. Thank you for the rationality.
Stormwing, thank you. This is great perspective. Especially about the marriage thing. Whatever anyone may think of Jess as a CL, her marriage, failed or otherwise, has little to do with this and is bordering on unnecessary meanness.
I'm disgusted, but honestly not that surprised that someone had to stoop so low and bring a personal matter in to this discussion. Especially being that it was someone who supposedly has a life outside of this place, a husband, and a family. Talk about calling the kettle black. So much time has been wasted here saying what she should have done, that she should resign. Well guess what? She hasn't. Even if this topic makes it to 500 posts that won't cause her to resign. I wonder why she hasn't, but it's not something I plan to hold against her quite frankly. We don't understand her reasoning for why she may not have time for this place, completely. You all apparently have lives, people. So this being the case I think it's time to get the hell over yourselves and just move on and accept what she decided to do. Lots of good points made here especially by James.
It is very low on bringing one's personal and family matter in this arguement. You cannot (cannot) justify what one does or not, just because how old they got married or not, how old they got kid, or divorce or die etc. I say it again, and it doesn't matter if this is just a plain blind website or a large organization or big business firm, to be not available for the last 8 months and still holding the posission is just wrong. It doesn't matter if she's married, divorce, having kids or move on with her life. And, this is not just the responsibility of Jess, it is more so the responsibility of the admins, to take action on this matter.
What does this say for the future cl and cls? it is okay for lnot able to log in for months un end. During your cl aplication, you can state that you will log in for 10 hours, 40 hours, or in the case of Anthony, 180 hours per week... But ones you got the cl job, it is also okay for you not to log in for more than 20 hours in a year.
Jess is not the first CL that done this. Another good example i can think of is Liz, where she used to be quite active on zone, but again, when she got the job, she hardly log in at all. Maybe, ones every 6 months if we are lucky.
Again, it is not individual cl fault, it is the mix bag of different thing. Lack of admin regulation on cls, lack of responsibilities, and life itself. However, i do think though, as an adult, One should at least be accountable for One action, with such posission. Regardless, it is in a pay or un pay posission.
The fact that 3 person brought Jess's marriage into light, be it directly or indirectly,to prove goodness only knows what except to make themselves distasteful was what prompted me to respond to a board which I would've ignored like most other drama filled ones...! And, all and all, good points James. You and Shepard Wolve should really consider applying for CL.
Ok. Just so it's clear, my somewhat off-the-cuff comment made on this board was, in retrospect, uncalled for. But I'd like to add that I didnt' in fact mean it in a judgmental or malicious way--though that's exactly how it's being taken...I had mistaken what Wayne had said in a prior post to mine and I proceeded to correct what I thought he was saying. It's true that Jess's personal life has absolutely nothing to do with her status as CL or her work on the zone. And on that note, I'm heading elsewhere, where there's just a little less drama to be spared. lol.
You got class Bernadetta!
Bernadetta, I, personally, see your point in bringing up Jess's marriage. at least, the way I took it was, you were using it to show that she had apparently shown responsibility in other areas of her life, so it was only logical to conclude that she'd do the same, when applying for the CL position.
oh, and, of course we're gonna be talking about Jess, on this topic. it's about her, after all, so it'd be quite idiotic to primarily discuss other CL's.
and, honestly, I'm shocked that people are mainly saying that it's admin's responsibility to take care of this, when it was Jess's decision to apply for the position.
Had I not brought up her being young, the marriage thing was not likely to have surfaced. For that I do apologize, though it was unintended / collateral.
This business about 'having lives' as some people call it? Only in an online community would people say that, I guess. Nobody says that if someone goes AWOL for 8 months in other volunteer organizations. And I've been a part of several over the years. In all cases, one should do two things when stepping down: resign from the position and let as many others know that you are leaving as is prudent. This way the workload gets offloaded. I'm actually in the process of doing just that now, since I'm moving here in a couple months and a lot of changes are afoot.
I certainly would not campaign for a volunteer office if I was planning to make such changes as I am now, many of which are unknown on here and some are known. "Having lives" as an excuse is stupid, and I've never heard that as an excuse for things like this until online communities I guess. Maybe in some kind of mud or rpg you can roleplay that so-called having lives as an excuse, but not in real life.
Of course things change. Tell somebody, or several somebodies. And, maybe don't campaign hard for a position when you are personally preparing for major life changes as school certainly is, and these center places apparently are.
But anyway, the part I feel bad for is having brought up the age thing, which tangentially led to someone mentioning personal things like the marriage. For that I am sorry, and stand by what I said earlier: I was wrong to have put that forth as a reason.
Stormwing, I think you're right on many counts save the Halo III / mudding references to 'having lives'. You're right about the white tablecloth. I take only one other issue with what you said though. She campaigned really hard. Quite possibly knowing she was going to make some serious lifestyle changes. This is why I brought up the youth thing for which I was apparently wrong. I have nothing against her, to me this is more about future people who think they want the position.
Hell, people have asked me, for better or worse, and I've had my reasons for not doing it. The main one, I have no definitive idea, though plenty of ideas, how my life is going to change once I'm back in the city here in a couple months. Truth is, lifestyle changes are usually planned, unless we're talking family problems like a parent gone sick or a child's needs changing. But if someone is going to school, or going to one of the centers, or like me moving back to an independent urban area and probably changing a lot of lifestyle issues, this isn't the time to campaign for a new volunteer position.
I guess I'm the odd one out here. Nothing personal against her, in fact my original if incorrect post was more a defense of her age which I stand corrected on. But leave the 'having lives' part with the mudders and RPGers. Because that excuse doesn't fly anywhere: everyone has a life, even us middle aged types stuck in the perpetual rut of corporate existence, even us who are currently isolated and unable to come and go as we please.
And it does seem people who have made clear cases about this problem here are doing so because the office needs to be vacated so a new applicant can stand in.
If you can't stand up, stand down, and let someone else stand in, so the mission carries on.
Looks like the CL job is one of those thankless ones that often exist in the volunteer sector.
Years ago I was a cl. When I thought of taking the job I must admit ego played a part in my accepting the job. When I resigned a year after I accepted it, I left quickly and greatfully. The job is tedium, you deal with immaturity on all levels, and sometimes heart wrenching situations. In short, it's work--really hard work.
I've put together a sort of wall of shame for the cls. Thanks to Blue Velvet for the idea.
It shows each admin or cl followed by the last time they were logged on. Develish Anthony and Chris N are the only ones taking their jobs seriously, as I see it.
Devilish Anthony today 15:57:14 (2 hours, 12 minutes, 41 seconds ago)
Chris N yesterday 10:43:08 (1 day, 7 hours, 24 minutes, 8 seconds ago)
admin Thursday, 05-Sep-2013 11:36:22 (14 days, 6 hours, 29 minutes, 10 seconds ago)
KC8PNLSaturday, 24-Aug-2013 20:02:30 (25 days, 22 hours, 5 minutes, 41 seconds ago)
Grecia Thursday, 15-Aug-2013 20:53:52 (1 month, 4 days, 21 hours, 17 minutes, 44 seconds ago)
LizWednesday, 17-Jul-2013 09:43:36 (2 months, 4 days, 8 hours, 25 minutes, 26 seconds ago)
OceanDream Saturday, 26-Jan-2013 23:41:04 (7 months, 25 days, 17 hours, 29 minutes, 31 seconds ago)
What a schedule. Lol
I guess the cl position is just a beauty contest.
Imagine what would happen to you if you didn't show up to work for a week or so, or a month or so.
Bob
Well, in the past, some good CL's have gotten disgusted with the general lack of participation and support from the two admins, so I'd say until they start paying more attention, the CL's who beg for the position and then don't come back once they get it will just keep getting away with it. If an employee got away with never coming to work, eventually the CEO of the company would have to be held accountable.
You're right of course, it's really up to the admins--they make the rules; it's their game. But it's still sad. It's like a ship without a rudder. It may stay on course for a while but eventually things will start going wrong until there's no more zone.
Bob